Today’s show is with Rob Gray, professor at Arizona State University and Host of the Perception & Action Podcast. Rob Gray is a professor at Arizona State University who has been conducting research on and teaching courses related to perceptual-motor skill for over 25 years. Rob focuses heavily on the application of basic theory to address real-world challenges, having consulted with numerous professional and governmental entities, and has developed a VR baseball training system that has been used in over 25 published studies. Rob is the author of the book “How We Learn to Move: A Revolution in the Way We Coach and Practice Sports Skills”.
When it comes to anything we do athletically: playing a sport, sprinting, lifting weights, even holding an isometric position; all of these things are learned skills. So often, the various compartments of athletics, the sport coach, the strength coach, the rehab specialist, are relatively disconnected, and there is often no common playbook when it comes to athletics and the learning process.
The principles of the way we learn, and how this learning fits with our movement strategy and ability, are universal. By understanding what it takes to be a better mover via the learning process, we have an understanding of the general process of athletic performance training from a broader frame of mind.
On today’s show, Rob Gray speaks about the fallacy of training a “perfect technique” via drills or repeated cues. He talks about why using a constraints-led approach to help shore up any key movement attractors (technique) is an ideal way to facilitate skill development. Rob will get into his take on how to approach learning the “fundamentals” in any sport skill, and also get into important concepts of variability in sport, the differences between novice and elite in variability, and then how there can be “good” or “bad” variability in sport training. Finally, Rob covers the role of variability in injury prevention, and talks about the sport coach/strength coach relationship in light of variability and the constraints led approach to skills.
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Timestamps and Main Points
5:05 – The story of Tim Tebow, and how he was so dominant on the NCAA level, but why his NFL career was very unsuccessful from a perspective of throwing biomechanics 9:08 – Rob’s take on the idea of “perfect technique” 13:47 – Approaching the “fundamentals” in any given skill, in the learning process 23:37 – Looking at drill-work in sport and its original intended purpose 25:33 – How much variability elite versus amateur athletes exhibit in their skills 28:59 – Variability across a spectrum of skills, such as running in football versus running on a track in sprinting 32:42 – Using variability in “basic” sports such as track and field or swimming 39:17 – How variability changes as one moves from novice, to intermediate, to expert, particularly on the level of an individual sport, like track and field 45:28 – Rob’s take on variability and injury-prevention 50:57 – The idea of donor sports and how those sports can offer helpful variability to one’s eventual sport specialization 56:35 – How strength coaches might be able to use variability in the gym that might connect to skills athletes are trying to improve on the field“There can’t be one perfect, ideal way, because the world is not staying the same around you”
“Being skillful is not about repeating the same solution to the problem, it’s about repeating coming up with solutions to problems”
“I like to think about giving athletes problems to solve instead of the solution”
“The process of solving problems is how you become skillful”
“So instead of trying to give them these attractors first, then plugging it into the actual action, I’d rather start with the action, and then pull back with constraints as a coach”
“The fundamental issue with dribbling around cones is, there is no problem there”
“Experts do tend to be more consistent in certain aspects of their movement, but it depends on what type, there is good and bad variability”
“Good variability is any variability that keeps you on your goal; it allows you to adapt”
“Experts tend to have this functional motor synergy, things working and varying together, is what we mean by good variability”
“On the surface, we want to say those (poor athletes with no facilities) are at a disadvantage, but it’s counter-productive to make (their facilities) perfect”
“I would really like to see some variability all of the time (even in individuals sports like track or swimming)”
“I’m a believer in basketball, deliberately trying to shoot the ball off of the back rim so that it comes back to you… doing that requires you learn the relationship to your movement, in given the new problem to solve; so we’re not going for here’s the one solution, do it over and over, let’s learn to solve related movement problems”
“Broad variability is just changing pitches and varying the speeds, focused variability is like getting a batter and saying “I only want you to swing at these pitches””
“Doing (specific/focused variability) with a young athlete is kind of a waste of time… on the elite end, you are trying to squeeze that last little bit out”
“Sometimes we make things boring in sports for no good reason”
“Learning is about being challenges, and making mistakes, it’s about being in an environment when you look bad sometimes”
About Rob Gray
Rob Gray is a professor at Arizona State University who has been conducting research on and teaching courses related to perceptual-motor skill for over 25 years. He received his MS and PhD from York University in Canada with a focus on the visual control of movement. An important aspect of his work has been applying basic theory to address real-world challenges which he has done in positions with Nissan Motor Corp, the US Air Force, serving as an expert witness for driving accident cases, and consultant roles with several sports teams and organizations. In 2007 he was awarded the Distinguished Scientific Award for Early Career Contribution to Psychology from the American Psychological Association. Rob is the author of the book “How We Learn to Move: A Revolution in the Way We Coach and Practice Sports Skills”.
One of the accomplishments he is most proud of is the baseball batting virtual environment/virtual reality that he developed over the course of several years and which has been used in over 25 published studies. In 2017 (Gray, Frontiers in Psychology) he published the results of a 10-year study using a virtual reality training protocol which led to clear evidence of transfer of training to real performance.
In his career, Gray has strongly emphasized the communication and dissemination of scientific knowledge. In 2015, he started the Perception & Action Podcast (perceptionaction.com) to help bridge the gap between theory and the field. With over 350 episodes and 2 million downloads, it has become a critical resource for individuals working in areas including coaching, talent development, training and rehabilitation.
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